(;
GM[1]FF[4]VW[]AP[Many Faces of Go version 12.001]
SZ[19]
HA[0]
ST[0]
PB[Fuego]
PW[ManyFaces2]
DT[2009-11-08]
PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]
KM[7.5]
TM[840]
RU[Chinese]
RE[B+Resign]
BR[3k]
WR[2k]
OT[25/30 Canadian]
C[ManyFaces2 [2k\]: GTP Engine for ManyFaces2 (white): Many Faces \
of Go version 12 (2008 world champion), playing at level 2 kyu. \
Uses Many Faces' knowledge combined with Monte Carlo evaluation. \
Free evaluation download at www.smart-games.com. iPhone/iPod \
Igowin app has this full engine.
Fuego [3k\]: GTP Engine for Fuego (black): FuegoEx version 6.6.SVN
fotland [?\]: is there a problem with fuego?
goIngo [?\]: Martin is absent at the moment.]
CA[UTF-8];B[cl]BL[631.081];W[pc]
C[goIngo [?\]: what a fiorst move]
WL[836.778];B[mi]
C[goIngo [?\]: what a show]
BL[622.859];W[cd]WL[832.899];B[qp]BL[614.253];W[np]
C[fotland [?\]: well many faces is out of its fuseki book]
WL[830.484];B[qi]BL[606.064];W[qf]WL[827.14]
;B[gc]BL[597.548];W[jc]
C[fotland [?\]: now also out of its joseki book
goIngo [?\]: In Germany we have a 5-dan who plays such openings]
WL[823.851];B[ic]BL[590.325];W[jd]WL[819.98];B[gl]
C[goIngo [?\]: sum on kgs]
BL[583.813];W[pl]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: I See]
WL[815.033];B[cg]
C[goIngo [?\]: you know him?]
BL[577.401];W[oi]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: ya
maproomad [-\]: Robert jasiek]
WL[809.613];B[hq]
C[goIngo [?\]: what is your opinion on his style?]
BL[569.584];W[qn]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: I just won him two games by another account yesterday. \
:)]
WL[803.164]
;B[id]BL[562.143];W[ec]
C[goIngo [?\]: ;-)]
WL[798.424];B[je]BL[555.91];W[ke]WL[791.177];B[jf]BL[552.581];W[kf]WL[784.254];B[kg]BL[548.315];W[jg]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: hard to say his style, maybe I need more games \
with him.]
WL[779.857];B[jb]BL[543.677];W[kh]WL[774.434]
;B[lg]BL[539.332];W[lh]WL[768.614];B[mg]BL[532.196];W[mh]WL[764.727];B[nh]BL[526.038];W[ih]WL[759.904];B[ng]BL[520.181];W[me]WL[753.15];B[ni]BL[514.615];W[ie]WL[749.114]
;B[if]BL[510.763];W[he]WL[745.294];B[hf]BL[508.848];W[ge]WL[740.966];B[kd]BL[504.335];W[kc]WL[737.169];B[ld]BL[501.763];W[ci]WL[730.922];B[le]BL[496.215];W[gh]WL[724.403]
;B[gf]BL[488.708];W[fg]WL[717.806];B[ee]BL[485.303];W[fd]WL[710.592];B[ff]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: ManyFaces is in trouble now.]
BL[480.367];W[kb]WL[706.632];B[dh]BL[475.284];W[ib]WL[701.822];B[hb]BL[469.959];W[ja]WL[697.79]
;B[ik]BL[464.416];W[kj]WL[691.441];B[lk]BL[457.903];W[fj]
C[fotland [?\]: yes.  can't use its opening knowledge makes it weaker]
WL[685.216];B[fi]BL[451.973];W[hj]WL[680.234];B[ej]BL[446.016];W[ei]WL[675.212];B[di]BL[440.61];W[eh]WL[668.819]
;B[gj]BL[436.579];W[fk]WL[664.633];B[gk]BL[433.014];W[gi]WL[660.036];B[ek]BL[429.058];W[ij]
C[goIngo [?\]: that would be an "interesting" perspective for the \
next computer olympiad(s)]
WL[653.147];B[fl]BL[424.612];W[jk]WL[648.961];B[il]BL[420.667];W[kq]WL[642.688]
;B[jl]BL[415.33];W[dq]WL[635.122];B[li]BL[410.652];W[ki]WL[629.719];B[fq]BL[406.115];W[kk]
C[goIngo [?\]: non-standard openings is always fun for the spectators]
WL[624.914];B[dc]BL[400.063];W[hc]WL[618.462];B[pq]BL[394.086];W[dd]WL[612.543]
;B[ed]BL[389.167];W[fc]WL[608.349];B[oo]BL[383.645];W[no]WL[601.458];B[nn]
C[ibd [7k\]: it's kind of paradox: if opponent plays weaker, game \
is harder for me]
BL[377.649];W[on]WL[596.99];B[om]BL[372.882];W[pn]WL[592.846];B[ok]
C[goIngo [?\]: that is a wellknown phenomenon from chess]
BL[369.615];W[nm]WL[588.436]
;B[mn]
C[ibd [7k\]: oh, really?
goIngo [?\]: and even from computer chess]
BL[366.513];W[ol]
C[fotland [?\]: means too much book knowledge]
WL[580.298];B[mm]BL[361.097];W[op]
C[goIngo [?\]: yes, sort of "Inzucht" problem]
WL[575.856];B[po]BL[355.623];W[qo]WL[571.22];B[pp]
C[goIngo [?\]: donÄ't know english term for inzucht]
BL[352.492];W[or]WL[564.272];B[oq]BL[349.336];W[nq]WL[559.801]
;B[pr]
C[jw24 [7k\]: inzest
pasky [2d\]: inbreeding]
BL[347.707];W[mr]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: usually, unknown situations will reflect a player's \
real strength.]
WL[554.587];B[os]
C[goIngo [?\]: right, thx]
BL[343.968];W[nl]WL[548.539];B[rp]
C[goIngo [?\]: but - book knowledge is part of the real strength]
BL[339.232];W[ml]WL[541.106];B[km]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: I don't think so.]
BL[334.389];W[ir]
C[ThePok [20k\]: build a bigger book]
WL[533.543];B[qg]BL[329.818];W[pg]WL[528.693]
;B[pf]
C[goIngo [?\]: In chess, Hydra some years ago dominated the scene]
BL[325.56];W[of]WL[522.622];B[pe]
C[goIngo [?\]: with a "short move" book]
BL[322.76];W[qh]WL[517.208];B[ph]BL[318.604];W[rg]WL[512.422];B[og]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: I think real strength is counting. I mean for \
human players.]
BL[315.921];W[qg]
C[goIngo [?\]: at most 10 moves in book was the rule]
WL[507.639];B[iq]BL[312.002];W[jr]WL[500.581]
;B[qd]BL[307.741];W[ri]WL[495.838];B[qj]
C[goIngo [?\]: the question is what we mean by "real"]
BL[304.557];W[oj]WL[487.597];B[oh]
C[goIngo [?\]: perhaps you mean more "ideal strength"]
BL[300.714];W[rj]WL[479.748];B[qk]
C[goIngo [?\]: or "pure strength"]
BL[296.996];W[pk]
C[ThePok [20k\]: own knowlege strength]
WL[472.736];B[pi]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: Now in the world of pros, the strongest player \
is good at fighting and unknown situations.]
BL[292.73];W[mc]WL[464.598]
;B[md]BL[288.42];W[nd]
C[goIngo [?\]: buit then again opening is part of the knowledge]
WL[459.845];B[oe]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: Gu Li and Lee Sidao are the same.]
BL[285.024];W[rk]WL[453.696];B[eb]BL[280.641];W[db]
C[goIngo [?\]: I understand what you mean]
WL[448.939];B[cc]BL[277.739];W[cb]WL[444.069];B[bc]BL[276.11];W[lc]WL[439.072]
;B[lf]
C[goIngo [?\]: In chess for instance Karpov was better in "pure \
strength"]
BL[273.563];W[co]WL[432.494];B[dp]
C[goIngo [?\]: but Kasparov was better in real tournaments]
BL[269.219];W[ep]
C[goIngo [?\]: because of his better opening preparation]
WL[423.973];B[eq]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: Well I am not familar with chess, so...]
BL[264.983];W[do]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: what I mean is for go.]
WL[417.27];B[cp]BL[261.016];W[cq]WL[412.191];B[bp]BL[259.394];W[bq]WL[407.015]
;B[bo]
C[goIngo [?\]: but there have been analogous discussions in chess]
BL[255.868];W[bn]WL[401.737];B[eo]BL[253.036];W[fp]WL[396.377];B[cn]BL[248.856];W[bd]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: Maybe for chess, opening is very important.]
WL[390.707];B[gp]
C[goIngo [?\]: yes, indeed]
BL[245.664];W[fo]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: but for go, fighting and counting is the most \
important.]
WL[385.182];B[fb]BL[242.82];W[bb]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: I think it is the same for computer go.
Aloriless [5k?\]: also important on 9x9 go]
WL[379.843]
;B[gd]BL[239.288];W[ac]WL[374.304];B[go]
C[goIngo [?\]: but on 9x9 go openings are very important]
BL[235.241];W[hd]WL[368.572];B[nr]BL[232.445];W[lp]WL[362.97];B[qc]BL[229.021];W[ne]WL[354.541];B[oc]
C[goIngo [?\]: at some point bots will surpass humans on 9x9
fotland [?\]: not really]
BL[225.799];W[od]WL[348.635]
;B[pd]
C[fotland [?\]: mf is pretty good at 9x9
goIngo [?\]: and that will happen by opening books
fotland [?\]: only has 3 move opening book]
BL[222.717];W[nc]WL[342.789];B[nf]BL[219.645];W[er]WL[333.121];B[fr]
C[goIngo [?\]: but it is weak in comparision with MoGo on 9x9]
BL[216.925];W[es]
C[fotland [?\]: yes, true]
WL[327.247];B[ms]
C[goIngo [?\]: with the "Taiean MoGo" I mean]
BL[213.977];W[lr]
C[goIngo [?\]: Taiwan MoGo]
WL[318.708];B[pb]BL[211.124];W[bf]WL[311.071]
;B[bg]BL[207.707];W[ag]WL[302.676];B[ah]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: Taiwan Mogo just lost to Zen in 9x9. :)]
BL[204.861];W[af]WL[297.527];B[bs]BL[200.494];W[bh]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: 2 games.]
WL[290.988];B[fs]
C[goIngo [?\]: By book issues or by "real" strength?]
BL[195.849];W[cj]WL[281.954];B[dj]BL[191.909];W[jo]WL[273.532]
;B[ko]BL[188.668];W[kl]WL[266.897];B[ll]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: Mogo's book is larger than Zen and Mogo was running \
on 16 cores, while Zen is 4 cores.]
BL[185.954];W[kn]WL[258.497];B[jn]
C[ThePok [20k\]: zen is cool]
BL[183.227];W[lo]WL[253.946];B[ro]BL[178.59];W[ln]WL[249.471];B[lm]
C[goIngo [?\]: were colors exchanged between the two games?]
BL[177.07];W[in]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: b1 was the wrong attack]
WL[245.08]
;B[jm]BL[174.091];W[ql]WL[238.73];B[io]
C[goIngo [?\]: Hi, Stefan
ajahuang [6d\]: Zen is very good at semeai and tsumego in 9x9.]
BL[171.247];W[bm]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: so w should have answered at c1]
WL[234.556];B[bl]BL[168.377];W[bk]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: hallo ingo]
WL[230.101];B[ak]BL[164.337];W[aj]WL[224.969];B[dn]BL[160.62];W[al]WL[220.324]
;B[ji]BL[157.554];W[df]WL[215.102];B[ig]BL[154.994];W[dg]WL[211.455];B[ef]BL[151.346];W[eg]WL[207.856];B[ch]BL[149.708];W[cm]WL[204.248];B[bi]BL[145.268];W[dl]WL[200.65]
;B[bj]BL[143.771];W[cs]WL[195.204];B[ck]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: lol]
BL[141.046];W[dr]WL[190.779];B[re]
C[goIngo [?\]: c1 still ok for saving?]
BL[138.168];W[ob]WL[186.506];B[rn]BL[134.363];W[ap]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: no :-)]
WL[181.276];B[ao]BL[131.723];W[jh]WL[176.609]
;B[qm]BL[127.612];W[pm]WL[173.633];B[rm]BL[125.635];W[dk]WL[169.223];B[cj]BL[122.86];W[rl]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: but no need for c9]
WL[165.805];B[pj]BL[118.338];W[nk]WL[160.913];B[sf]BL[112.88];W[gr]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: b "killed" a dead group]
WL[155.748]
;B[hr]BL[107.885];W[hs]WL[153.106];B[jp]
C[goIngo [?\]: we will see a quicktime finish now
gogonuts [5d\]: d2 would have been alot more useful than c9]
BL[102.866];W[sm]WL[148.249];B[qs]BL[98.518];W[ls]WL[143.618];B[ns]BL[93.571];W[pc]
C[ajahuang [6d\]: Fuego was wasting 3 mins before the first move.]
WL[140.887];B[qb]BL[89.958];W[cf]WL[137.318]
;B[aq]BL[85.24];W[ar]WL[135.948];B[oa]BL[81.2];W[na]
C[gogonuts [5d\]: pretty poor first move for 3 minutes thinking \
:-)]
WL[134.645];B[pa]
C[fotland [?\]: congrats Martin
ajahuang [6d\]: Oh, good game...
goIngo [?\]: congrats, martin"
goIngo [?\]: stefan,
goIngo [?\]: it took them 3 moves to switch of the book
goIngo [?\]: 3 minutes
goIngo [?\]: switch off
gogonuts [5d\]: switch *ff* ok :-)
gogonuts [5d\]: off
goIngo [?\]: read the comments from top of the list
goIngo [?\]: yes, it helped
gogonuts [5d\]: if they switched to a differet book, it was a \
pretty strange book :-)
goIngo [?\]: sum-type
goIngo [?\]: so to say
goIngo [?\]: ;-)
goIngo [?\]: the idea was to circumvene mf book
gogonuts [5d\]: sum would be envious
goIngo [?\]: or he declares himself the father of this success \
;-)
gogonuts [5d\]: didnt think of that :-)
goIngo [?\]: you have to compare two names:
goIngo [?\]: snafu and fuego
goIngo [?\]: it sounds related
goIngo [?\]: sort of similar dialect
gogonuts [5d\]: fuego will not be happy to hear that
goIngo [?\]: ;-)
goIngo [?\]: you have to live with all sorts of "relatives"
gogonuts [5d\]: atleast you have to find fuegos' acronym
goIngo [?\]: ??
gogonuts [5d\]: snafu is an acronym
goIngo [?\]: I did not know that
gogonuts [5d\]: so if its the same family ...
gogonuts [5d\]: no?
goIngo [?\]: I always sort it is a German tribe, central german
gogonuts [5d\]: than you did not comprehend the depth of your \
insult
gogonuts [5d\]: situation normal, all fucked up
goIngo [?\]: of course not - I am ionnocent
goIngo [?\]: ;-)
goIngo [?\]: inoccent
goIngo [?\]: innocent
gogonuts [5d\]: snai
goIngo [?\]: southern nebraska artificial intelligence ?
gogonuts [5d\]: just situaion normal, all innocent
goIngo [?\]: all innocent is good
PaperTiger [1k?\]: Well I learned something today, didn't know \
the snafu acronym
goIngo [?\]: I am Innocent VIII
gogonuts [5d\]: king of the innocents?
goIngo [?\]: can you explain me PaperTiger?
goIngo [?\]: no, pope of the innocent's
PaperTiger [1k?\]: It already was explained by gonuts
goIngo [?\]: number 8
goIngo [?\]: but he is too complicated for me
PaperTiger [1k?\]: gogonuts [5d\]: situation normal, all fucked \
up
goIngo [?\]: ;-)
goIngo [?\]: lying under table, laughing
PaperTiger [1k?\]: Maybe you just like haring me swear
PaperTiger [1k?\]: Anyways, the game is over so it won't be recorded \
for posterity :)
gogonuts [5d\]: you only quoted :-)
gogonuts [5d\]: right
goIngo [?\]: we will see
PaperTiger [1k?\]: By all
goIngo [?\]: the cellars of KGS are deep
gogonuts [5d\]: im pretty sure it stops recording after the game
goIngo [?\]: have a look later
gogonuts [5d\]: :-)
goIngo [?\]: ;-)
gogonuts [5d\]: ok, bye bye
goIngo [?\]: bye, too]
BL[76.802])
